On Going

Session 1     

Part One

Reading Assignment -The Five Thousand Year Leap: pg 7-33

Rulers Law vs. Peoples Law

In this section you will find brief, but, in depth descriptions of the origins of our form of government, the processes that led to the Constitution and the societies and individuals that inspired our Founders. The author also explains the difference between right and left as viewed by our Founders and how our current perception of the political spectrum is incorrect.

Key point of discussion

• Describe the difference between today’s view on  the two extremes of the political spectrum, and the Founders view on the two extremes. (9-10)

• Discuss the 11 characteristics of Rulers Law. Is Washington D.C. starting to resemble characteristic #9? (11-12)

• Discuss the 9 characteristics of People’s  Law. Are we still paying attention to the 5th characteristic? (12-14)

• Discuss the characteristics of People’s Law of ancient Israel, and note the similarities to the laws of the Anglo-Saxons. (15- 17)

• How did the Founders want to memorialize the Anglo-Saxons and the ancient Israelis? (17-18)

• Discuss why the Articles of Confederation were unsuccessful, and the weakness that was exposed during the battle of Valley Forge. (19-21)

• Discuss the tenuous position of America prior to the Constitutional convention and the processes that or Founders participated in during the convention. (21- 23)

• Where did the Founders want to keep the power base? (23)

• Discuss America’s three-headed eagle, and the two wings of the eagle. (24- 26)

• Discuss Jefferson’s and Washington’s concerns about the extremes in the party system, and  notice the difficulty –from the beginning- to keep the government in the balanced center on the political spectrum. (27-29)

Discuss the fear that the Founders had of our possible drift toward collectivism. Have we  been listening to their warnings? (29-30)

• Why was there a need for an educated public?  What did Jefferson say about this issue? (30-31)

• Discuss the Founder’s basic beliefs, their varied backgrounds and the people that inspired them. (31-32)

We should note that maintaining the balanced center of the political spectrum was a task that required constant attention. Freedom and liberty need to be vigilantly guarded from the forces that seek to destroy them. This is evident now – more than ever.


Please use this Discussion Forum for  Discussions- please DO not post Book discussion on the WALL- as there is no way to properly reply.

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Replies to This Discussion

I started the book three days ago and am thoroughly enjoying it! I "scan" read it quickly back in 2009 but now I find there is so much more meaning in the Founders words.  This book is so well written, I also love the touches of humor...

I look forward to discussing this with you all...

Suzie, Yes an interesting book. Is this where we are to post?


Yes on the Book and Yes on the posting! I realize this is not a very clear layout- but best I could do on this site! Why they "hide" the forum I don't know! I will advertise this Book study as well as the Constitutional discussions as soon as we merge...

I am enjoying the History, I had certainly forgotten more then I remember! 

  • Describe the difference between today’s view on  the two extremes of the political spectrum, and the Founders view on the two extremes.

His argument supports what many Patriots instinctively see through the political elites actions that we are now living under tyranny and tyranny will only grow.

The power is taken from the people unto the elite. The extremes we are seeing on the political spectrum benefit both political parties. Balance has been lost. Terms left and right when used serve their purposes not the mainstream folk. It serves only to divide us clearly an advantage to the political elite.

The founding hope was no political parties. It was inevitable. Once the Federalist were successful  in labeling those who questioned their big government and demanded the peoples rights be more defined e.g. Bill of Rights the idea of balance was already eroded. This balance now a dream we hold is lost. For many political elite the notion of left and right exist in the populous this notion is cultivated for their  purposes only. The populous buys it hook line and sinker. This is not to imply that among the populous there does not exist extremist. Obviously they do. I do agree that the line of a left-wing vs a right-wing are blurred, both are extremist. There is no balance of thought.

Now even the division of the two extremist work for the imbalance and thus concentration of power in the political process. Power resides in Washington and not we the people. The last party standing wins the brass ring. 

Ideological differences exist among we the people not in a big way among the political elite.

Some among us cry foul when one of the elite attempt to restore balance. We either view them as crazy bordering of liberalism be they Dem's or Republican in party affiliation. These guys have no real choice in labeling themselves by party.

Where is the balance? It is destroyed. Where has the liberty of the people gone? Does not exist. 

Obama grooms as a progressive. It is true to a degree. Has income disparity been altered? No. Is wealth flowing to the rich? Yes. Is there a transfer of wealth? Well yes. Do either of the parties care about America? No.

There are some among the elite who do -- they are marginalized almost to extinction. Where is the balance? Does not exist. 

Are less regulations necessary? Well yes. No regulations not desirable. Balance.

What makes it so easy for the political elite to manipulate us? This is the question of our time and as Christine pointed  out on another discussion it will take each person in America to evaluate their position.Arriving at balance as many founders believed so necessary will be for ever lost. Liberty is lost. One needs only to look at  MSM, there is no balanced reporting. We are bombarded media whose very existence is based on destroying balance. Truth is lost and we all suffer we become more divided.

I think most Americans want balance -- how to achieve this will be difficult to obtain. I do believe the Obama scandals plus the non change in income disparities  and as well the erosion of liberties will hurt the democrats. Will the Republicans change course? Yes to some degree.

The military complex will grow. Will government be more limited? Yes to some degree. We will see more government functions transferred to the private sector. Will regulations on private industry lesson? Yes. Will this regulation decrease be done with the best interest of Americans in mind? No. Lobbying money will drive. The TPP will drive some of the ridding of regulations.

There is no balance  only the seeking, obtaining and keeping of power on the hill.


Sorry this got off to a slow start due to the website merge and my health. Soon as we are fully merged I intend to do some advertising for this project.. I am very interested in doing this book study- timing was just bad..

I hope some members have begun reading this Book...

Please do not feel rushed - participate as you can. Each Chapter will be active for 30 days before we discuss the next chapters...

I have been reading the Introduction along with Part one this afternoon...

On page 4, discussing how a civilization dies...I thought this was a pretty profound  and accurate prediction- as this book was written in 1981- the paragraph that begins ..."They are muddling their minds with drugs, riots, revolutions and terrorism... and ends "And all the other ingredients of insanity which have shattered twenty mighty civilizations in the past"

I agree to the extent that in history there is ample evidence with regards to civilizations, governments dissolving due the ingredients mentioned. I also see that common sense informs that many things that plague the American society is related to to these ingredients. There are other issues that can and do contribute as well. America does not have leaders of the caliber of the founding. Leadership at the national and states level could possibly turn the tide.

There are those among us whose use of drugs and the profiting from "illegal" drugs add not only misery, but keep people in a state that they are powerless to achieve their potential and thus break out of the cycle of poverty.

We can not discount today that prescription drugs have a role in keeping folks across the spectrum of races that also results in the same fate of powerlessness and even for the recipient of these drugs an addiction that many times result in the law abiding to seek a drug by means rooted in the illegal.

A revolution in my opinion is of course not always wrong. Some are necessary even when their premise for are not supported by all. All sides learn from the act even the people who are unsuccessful. Eldridge Clever for example was one such individual. Revolution causes pain and there is no doubt in this.

Society and institutions such as families have inflicted on them insanity when one of their own is addicted to alcohol. The early settlers alcohol drinking was acute of course it was also used as a medicinal. America truly I can safely state was built on the use of alcohol. During the Revolutionary War alcohol often kept the troops willing to fight.

The notion of moderation in all things has been lost within American society  today.

Recall that Hamilton placed a federal tax on alcohol. He said and I paraphrase, "they drink to much". Alcohol was a huge enterprise in our young nation.

America has lost its way for many, many reasons and we will cease to be great.

Suzie, I thought I would like to add, talk, more on these two bullet points. The framers I marvel at their wisdom because a good bit of issues with our government today centers around them.

  • Describe the difference between today’s view on  the two extremes of the political spectrum, and the Founders view on the two extremes. (9-10)
  • Discuss America’s three-headed eagle, and the two wings of the eagle. (24- 26)

I love the analogy of the three-headed eagle and the two wings. Poor Eagle is suffering from decades of pop shots that has rendered her to fly veering far to the left at times and to the right at other times resulting in not finding her nest to heal.

When the politic spectrum is extreme problem solving made near impossible. The imbalance today in Washington is reduced to fighting based on power and greed for themselves and their favorite special interest buddies. The well being of America and her people is lost. Oh for sure ideology fuels the flames. Selfishness abounds along these lines.

Both the left  and right within America's citizens play in to the game. Faith based plays hard ball. Most Americans would benefit from reading the framers concern about balance, what it takes to allow the eagle to soar.

I would have difficulty believing that all politicians and the citizens couldn't agree on the fact that America is in a state of imbalance. Assuming that is true then the clue is since we are so polarized to try and fix the imbalance resides in leadership. That leadership must come from the office of the President and from all members of congress. The message would have to NOT be couched on winning political points or preference based on ideology that is encased in concrete. No political games. This must be orchestrated in both political parties and yes cooperation from faith based institutions. Again leadership is key. This of course is not simple, takes courage and true change will occur over time. Patience. We are no longer a patient peoples.

We need leadership with the kind that the founding possessed. The founding were building a nation and understood the components required and they gave the nation a framework, the constitution and a nation rooted in the rule of law.

We need leaders that understand the necessity of rebuilding the nation.


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